17.05.2008
US Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Nomination of William Burns
to be Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs
[excerpts re Russia]
April 28, 2008SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN): Well, thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Ambassador Burns, it's a privilege to have you before the committee once again have an opportunity to thank you and commend you for remarkable service in Russia and, before that, in the Middle East. Many people are not as well aware of you achievements in that sector, in addition. I was pleased just to note, over your right shoulder, former ambassador Jim Collins, who is here today, and it is wonderful to have Jim Collins in the audience likewise, old comrade spirits in Russia. Let me just ask, turning a moment to a near neighbor of Russia, about recent Georgian actions, without attempting to characterize the motivation for movement in those two parts of Georgia in which Russian continues to play an active role. What do you perceive is the motivation? Is this a coercion of Georgia or really an attack upon NATO and the discussion of Georgian membership? Give us some feel for where that is headed. MR. MCMAHAN: Thank you very much Senator Lugar. As you know, the United States has made very clear our support for Georgia's territorial integrity. And our strong concern about some actions which the Russian government has recently taken, which undermine Georgia's territorial integrity. Part of the calculation on the part of the Russian government may have to do with its clear opposition to the further enlargement of NATO along its own borders. I think in term of our response, it's very important to do all we can to make common cause with our European partners and to stress in a strong and steady fashion that ours is a collective concern. As one small indication of that, in Moscow, in the next couple of days, we're going to be approaching the Russian foreign ministry again, not separately, but collectively, along with the Germans and some of our other key European partners in the so-called friends of Georgia, again, to underscore our concern. SEN. LUGAR: I appreciate that response. I'm certain he reached out in directions to friends wherever he can find them but, I received an urgent call from President Saackashvili last Thursday, in which he was most hopeful that our administration would speak out, likewise individual members of Congress. Senator Biden and I drafted an op-ed piece which appeared in The Washington Times yesterday, trying to affirm the importance of Georgia and, likewise, the importance of its territorial integrity and its aspirations to us. I appreciate your statement today, and we look forward to the administration's vigorous pursuit of that idea. Let me just ask for a moment about the START treaty. We had an opportunity to discuss this privately earlier today, but just for the record, is the administration now committed to trying to reach agreement with regard to a START treaty verification regime before that expires next year? What are the sticking points? What do you foresee, really, to be the course of activity of the United States and Russia with regard to the START situation? MR. BURN: Well, sir, President Bush reaffirmed when he met with President Putin in Sochi earlier this month, the U.S. commitment to a legally-binding post-START agreement. And I think the administration feels a sense of urgency about this, not only because of the importance of a post-START agreement for relations between the United States and Russia, and for our bilateral interest in strategic stability, but also I think because Russia and the United States have both unique capabilities and unique responsibilities in the nuclear field. And I think the successful conclusion of a legally-binding post- START agreement would send a powerful signal to the rest of the world of our responsible exercise of that leadership in managing our own remaining nuclear arsenals. And at a moment when the danger of the spread of nuclear weapons is as serious as it's ever been in human history, I think that kind of U.S.-Russian leadership is very important. SEN. LUGAR: And how vigorous do you perceive our leadership in the remainder of this current presidential term? MR. BURNS: Well, President Bush was very clear when he met with President Putin and President-elect Medvedev in Sochi, and also in the Strategic Framework Declaration that was released by the two presidents afterward, about our commitment to trying to conclude a legally-binding post-START agreement. SEN. LUGAR: As you know, Ambassador Boyden Gray has a new assignment. namely, to go out and visit with countries about energy issues -- Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Turkey, a good number of other countries in which the need for the flow of oil and natural gas to the rest of the world -- a portfolio that increases the flow from something that is more exclusively Russian, to much more world- like, on behalf of our European allies, as well as our own -- our own country. How can we work with the Russians, or others, for them to understand this? In addition to these countries that's -- that Ambassador Gray will be visiting, how coordinated is the administration's point of view in taking a look at potential hazards to our European allies, quite apart from the need for us to work in developing relations with other countries through personal visitation? MR. BURNS: Well, Senator Lugar, I can think of two or three steps which are very important for us to take. The first is to recall the set of principles which were agreed at the G-8 summit in St. Petersburg, that was hosted by Russia in the summer of 2006. Principles which emphasized the importance of diversity -- of diversification of sources; of transit routes; principles which emphasized the importance of sanctity of contracts; as well as transparency in the way in which the global energy market works. And so I think it's very important, at the upcoming G-8 summit -- in our diplomatic efforts with our partners in the EU, and directly with Russia, to strengthen adherence to those principles. Second, I think it is also very important -- just as you discussed with Ambassador Gray, for the United States to engage in the most active diplomatic efforts possible throughout Central Asia, because active personal diplomacy, it seems to me, is extremely important in the pursuit of those principles from the St. Petersburg G-8 summit, especially diversification. And, finally, it is important to engage Russia. It is today the world's largest producer of hydrocarbons, of oil and gas. It is, by any definition, a major player in the global energy market. There are some overlapping interests with regard, for example, to energy efficiency, especially as Russia moves to the liberalization of its domestic gas prices. That's going to become a more important goal for Russia itself. And there are things we can learn from each other on that. So engaging the Russians is also an important element of any successful strategy.... SEN. CASEY: How do you see your recent experience in Russia? We know the significant role that Russia is playing in a lot of our foreign policy challenges, not the least of which is the challenge posed by Iran. And we know that Russia recently initiated fuel shipments to the Bushehr nuclear power plant in Iran. How do you see the impact of that kind of relationship generally, but in particular that particular economic relationship with the shipment of fuel? MR. BURNS: Mr. Chairman, the Bushehr project and the recent shipment, I think, actually can provide an opportunity to drive home to the Iranians that the nuclear issue is not about their right to pursue civilian nuclear power and that if the Iranians are simply interested in having a civilian nuclear plant, they have no need to enrich fuel on their own or to master the fuel cycle on their own, because the Russians, through the Bushehr project, are providing fuel for the plant and then have very carefully arranged for the spent fuel to be returned to Russia, which strikes us as being a sensible approach, not just in Iran, but more widely with regard to the challenge of making civilian nuclear power available to developing countries or to countries around the world, but to do it in a way which guards against the dangers of weapons proliferation. So I think Bushehr, about which in years past we had had quite legitimate concerns, has evolved into a project which can be an opportunity to sharpen the reality that if the Iranians are only interested in developing civilian nuclear power, they don't have a need to enrich fuel at this stage, because Bushehr doesn't require them to do that. SEN. CASEY: So you see it as more helpful than harmful. MR. BURNS: I think it can be, yes, sir. SEN. CASEY: I wanted to ask you -- and I know we want to move to our other witnesses as well, but I wanted to ask you also about Russia, your most recent assignment. We've seen a lot of changes. Most recently, President Putin has presided over a lot of developments, just by way of a quick summary, cracking down on civil society groups and democratic reformers, in a sense creating almost a de facto one-party state, employing energy resources to intimidate and coerce neighbors, engaging in bellicose rhetoric against proposed U.S. missile defense deployments, and finally, suspending compliance with the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty, something that I raised months ago. What's your sense of our relationship in the context of those developments, and also, just broadly, in terms of the past or history, recent past, and also in the context of a new president, Mr. Medvedev, who we're learning a little bit about, but we don't yet know, A, what kind of leadership style he'll bring, and B, whether or not he'll be unduly influenced by Mr. Putin? MR. BURNS: Mr. Chairman, we have a big, complicated relationship with Russia which combines elements of cooperation in some very important areas with elements of competition and conflict. And I think those are going to be the contours of our relationship for some time to come. You rightly listed a number of areas where we've had real differences with the Russian government, whether it's as a result of the overcentralization of power at home in Russia, differences over missile defense, differences over NATO's enlargement. But at the same time, I think when you look at nuclear cooperation, what we can do together to set a good example for the rest of the world to work against the proliferation of nuclear weapons, when you look at our increasing economic ties, when you look at ways in which we can work well together in resolving some regional conflicts around the world, I think you also see those parts of the relationship in which we really do need to invest. It's not a relationship that we have the luxury of ignoring, because Russia is not only, as I said before, the world's largest producer of hydrocarbons today; it's the only nuclear power in the world comparable to the United States. It's a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council. It's a huge country which connects Europe to Asia and sits astride the broader Middle East. So by any of those calculations, it's a relationship that requires our careful attention to be plainspoken where we have differences, but at the same time, to try to expand areas of common ground. In Mr. Medvedev's presidency, I think a lot of the focus for Russia itself is going to be on addressing the opportunities it has before it. You know, you've had very rapid economic growth, 7 percent annual growth over the course of the last eight or nine years, enormous economic potential. But the question now, I think, for Russia is, "So what are you going to do with that moment of opportunity?" And I think there are areas in our relationship where we can help reinforce the potential for Russia to take advantage of those opportunities in a way which integrates it into the global economy and into the global system and makes it a more responsible international player. That's going to take time, but I think it's worth working out on our part. SEN. CASEY: How do you see, if you can comment on this, that relationship between those two individuals? Are we likely to see, in the near future, a declaration of independence by the new president, or do you think it's going to be a more intertwined or dependent relationship? MR. BURNS: Mr. Chairman, if there's one thing I've learned over the years about Russia, it's to be humble in making predictions. So it's -- Russia doesn't have a great deal of experience with dual leadership kind of arrangements. Assuming that President Putin becomes the next Russian prime minister, from everything I can see, the personal relationship between President Putin and President-elect Medvedev is a strong one. But this is going to be a challenging period for Russia, and a lot rides on it in terms of how Russia addresses some of those challenges that I described before in its own self-interest. So it's going to be fascinating to watch.
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